How to Blend Your Family When You Get Married with Jess Norman

Podcast

Apr 6

I had the pleasure of sitting down with Jess Norman the other day and I got to ask her about her experiance with blending her and her husband, Jay’s, family. Jess shares her sage wisdom on how she cultivated a safe and loving enviroment through different means, including lamps, haha. If you are planning to blend your family, or want to blend your family someday, then this is for you. Let’s bridge the wedding gap together and talk about blended families.

Before I share the transcript, I want to share a little bit of a disclaimer: I have dyslexia and transcribing is difficult, but I wanted to provide this for you. I did my best to edit it and keep the integrity of the conversation, but you may find typos. Now, let’s get on to the podcast:

Podcast Transcript:

Annie

Hey, Jess; thank you so much for coming onto the podcast.

Jess

Hi, thank you for asking me, Annie; I am so excited. I cannot wait for this.

Annie

I am stoked. So why don't you introduce yourself and tell us your story?

Jess

Okay, so my name is Jess Norman. I live about an hour northeast of Dallas with my husband. We farm corn, soybean, and wheat, and we have cattle. And we're a blended family. His two children were the exact same age as my older two. So when we got married, we got two brand new sets of step-twins. Right now, they are 17, 17, 14, 14, and then the baby is 10, and the baby is mine. Jay and I don't have any children together.

And I'm from southern Louisiana, a gigantic loving family from down there. I've never met another family quite like mine until I met Jays. So I have two now, which is just, I think blessings upon blessings, upon blessings and don't feel very don't feel worthy enough for even one much less 2, so it's been really neat.

All five of our children play basketball, so we just finished up five basketball seasons. And then a couple of them will keep playing. We're in year six of our marriage, and We have two podcasts, so my all of my time is in editing and kind of producing those and then just, Kind of our blended family ministry as far as pouring into any of the folks that God has brought to us to. you know, we just, there was something that we needed when we were walking through those dark times and we just decided that's what we wanted to be for others. So all of my time now is running kids to basketball games or trying to find somebody that needed something, just like I did.

Annie

Wow, that is incredible.

Jess

Thanks, Annie!

Annie

Okay, so for those who don't know, I have known Jess and Jay since right before they got married. Or did I take your engagement photos after you were married.

Jess

You took them before. I want to say, but now I don't exactly remember. Okay, so.

Annie

February 20th.

Jess

I'm not sure that must have just been a repost or something, you know.

So going back, my niece had said, "I found someone brilliant to photograph your reception," and sent me your website. And I remember the very first thing it said, "Howdy!" And I was like, yeah, she's my girl. And you came and did our engagements, and they are pictures that we will cherish forever. And then you came and shot our reception, and the same thing you just photographed all of the very important moments in our lives, so we cherish you. You're part of our family.

Annie

Oh, thank you. I love y'all. I love listening to your podcast and all that. I was overseas when you guys started your podcast, and so it was a taste of home.

Jess

Thanks, I'm so glad. Isn't that neat how you can do that? That's honestly why we started one of our other podcasts with four of my girlfriends, and we started it during quarantine because we just knew someone was lonely, and so we were like, "What can we do to help the lonely?" And it's to put something on your phone. That's a bunch of girls. Cackling and laughing and joking. We wanted them to feel like we were sitting at their table drinking coffee with them.

Annie

I love that. So you are a blended family, with that, what did everyone tell you about blended families before you got married?

Jess

What the main thing I knew about blended families was that I had been a personal trainer for about 15 years. At that time, I had trained a lady for many years, probably 6-7 years, during the heat of the worst toxic blend of a family that you could imagine. I'm sure someone could beat my stories of hers, but to me, they were the worst I'd ever heard involving cops and locks on doors. And just all this horrific stuff, and that's all I knew, and I was married to my first husband. And we, of course, were saying, "not us, never us, we'll never, we will never do that. We'll never put the kids through that. Thank God we'll never be in that situation!" And so that was my first and most prevalent story of what a blended family looked like. And so when I found myself in that situation that I was going to blend a family, I thought it's Ex-O-facto, that's what's going to happen to us. Are we strong enough to get through it?

Annie

That is so hard to hear those kinds of stories, especially like when you're going to go into that.

Jess

Right.

Annie

When you were thinking about starting to date and everything, how long did you wait for to tell your children that you were dating Jay?

Jess

I think a long time just because it was so new. You know, when I had married my husband, I hadn't really dated many people. I had definitely never been in a romantic relationship with anyone, he was my first.

So going to your first and being with your first for 12 years set the second one doesn't seem right. You know, you don't get to say y'all met in church. You don't get to say y'all went to college together. It just all of it just feels so unnatural, especially for someone like me that was raised very strict Southern Baptist, not strict from my parents, but strict from the church. And not even strict in a bad way, just, "This is how life is supposed to happen," and so when things started happening not like that, it felt like a tearing away of myself, almost like someone was skinning me.

And so it wasn't like, "Oh my gosh, I can't wait for y'all to meet him," even though he was amazing. But at the same time, I was terribly, terribly lonely. You know, people say, "Oh my gosh, can you believe that man has only been widowed for six months and now he's got another gal? Look at him. He's already sending her flowers." And I'm like, “Six months! Have y'all been alone for six hours?” Like it's a lot. I mean, it is. It is a very long time to be alone when we were created to be right by each other.

And I feel like I waited a long time, but I probably didn't because I wanted our home to be an authentic home, not something where, you know, when they were at their dad's, he was there. I mean, of course, that happened for a while, and so maybe I did just want to match those two things up.

Annie

When you did go about introducing your children to the idea of you dating someone, how did you go about that? And then, did you tell them that he had kids?

Jess

We all knew each other when we were married to our first spouses. We all knew each other, we all lived in the same tiny town. We even have pictures of the kids years and years before. We have this one main picture where there are four bigs are standing while my ex-husband is on a four-wheeler throwing mud on them. And I know I'm like, "Can I frame it? Can I? I don't know. Does anyone know the guidelines?” We have pictures of the kids many years before all of this happened.

Jay and I, he was somebody that was in one of my boot camps, and since we were, we worked out at the same gym and since we were married we stepped into this brother-sister roll. We knew we were cut from the same cloth and we knew there was something about it, we wanted to be right by each other, but of course that part of our heart wasn't open. And so that was another thing that was a little unnatural, is falling in love with your brother because that's just how we had developed our friendship, into something completely platonic. That's a whole other episode.

I think when I finally told the kids, I may not have done a very good job because I think like a year later Cash came home crying from his cousins. He was only about three. He was three and they had told him that we had gotten divorced and he said "no, they're not divorced" and he had thought that they were both mine, that I was with Jay, and I was with his dad. And so I was like, “gosh, I'm not a very good communicator,” so I had to be a little bit more clear instead of sending good vibes, I had to just use my words better, but they're not words you want to use from everything we've already said.

You know, I don't think I was ever very excited to tell them.

Annie

Yeah, I mean, it's an interesting situation trying to navigate that, trying to set an example for your children on how to go about navigating relationships,

Also, honoring the Lord with your relationships well.

Jess

Right. Also, you're really a shell of a person.

I mean, you're gone through a divorce. The whole tearing away that we talked about, and now you're going to try to pour from an empty cup. You know, I can't really imagine how Jay and I made it through that I really can't. Because he really fell in love with somebody on zero, so what does he feel about this person that is definitely not her anymore and not on zero and will never be back on zero?

So I love to study people, my minor was sociology, and so I love to study all of that, but I was completely checked out and not who I am today, of course, but not who I ever was. I was just very much a shell in survival mode.

Annie

Yeah, I would be too if I were in that situation. You're dealing with trauma, you are healing, the Lord is touching your heart in different areas and healing different things while you're also trying to pursue relationships, and companionships. and it's a lot.

Jess

Right? It was. It was a lot and I think it's taken us, like you saying trauma is exactly, it's just we were, I was grieving. my little family that I had dreamed about since I was a little girl. I was the last person that wanted to get divorced, and I was the last person that wanted a second husband. I was the last person that wanted one moment without my kids. I never wanted my kids to have two homes. So I've very much got stuck on pause for a very long time, and that's really what birthed our podcast. Our podcast is called Moving On, and it's because there's so many times in our lives that we just get stuck because we're too scared to walk through that door. in fear of what's on the other side, and honestly, we just think the door is locked, and it's not. It's unlocked the whole time. You know, I want to say the most amazing advice I'd ever been given was from my dad. You know, he had come in, he had met Jay for the very first time. They were standing in the driveway. And even ex-husband had come over to see my mom and dad and say hello. And as he was driving away and my dad grabbed my shoulders, I just felt so judged. I felt 8 years old at the time, and he grabbed both my shoulders, and he just said, "Keep doing exactly what you're doing. Don't turn back, keep moving forward." So that's where "moving on" comes from. It's just taking one scary step forward, one clumsy step forward, at a time, and just making sure there's a difference in being still in a difference and being stuck. And that was probably the worst time I ever got stuck in my life.

Annie

When you were going through all this, processing everything, you had to tell your kids that you were dating Jay, and then they knew who his kids were. Was there any kind of interaction that you guys had to facilitate, or since they lived in the same town, they knew each other? It wasn't. that big of a deal to them? What was that like?

Jess

I think because of how it all unfolded, I know Jay's divorce took a very long time, so by the time we could be a family together physically, we were a family. And so the kids were, unfortunately, just kind of thrown into like, "Hey, here's your, here's your brother, here's your sister," Luckily, it was a really beautiful situation.

We had a few that were probably older and not on board immediately, but overall, our middle girls seem like they'd been looking for each other their whole lives, and Cash was younger, so he was just so happy to have all of these screaming kids all around him. And even though the beginning came with some sadness and some really tough moments and some really uncomfortable moments because your home is supposed to be your safe space, and now you have other people in your home that don't want to be in this home with you. And so, how can that be safe, and how can it be safe for you? And how can it be safe for them? And so I want to describe that because I don't want anyone to think that we just smooth sailed right into it because we didn't.

But even though there was just such tough moments, our faith was that, "You've brought us this far; you're not going, you're not, there's no way you're letting us fail. There's no way we know you're not. We know you. We've seen your work in our lives, and I know this is going to be painful, and I know this will suck at times, but. We know you're going to bring us through this, and we just don't know how long."

And I think I told you this the other day, Annie, but a good friend at our wedding that had had some knowledge on the topic told us that it would take six years to blend them, and I wasn't having it. I was like, "Oh, thank you." You know, I probably just got away from them as fast as I could, but I was in my head. I was like, "Watch me. I'll do it in six months. Watch me." And I heard something the other day that said, "A shortcut is the quickest way to the back of the line," and that is how those first couple of years were as we were just trying to just shove them together. You know, when you, I'm sorry I'm going off on a tangent, but when you photographed our reception, I know you took this really beautiful picture.

We had done a chalkboard sign in front of the venue with seven pairs of muddy boots, and it said "His, Mine, and Ours," and we were just adamant that they were ours. We were not going to say his or, you know, we weren't going to do it. We were just going to jump 2 feet in, and we quickly realized that you just can't rush it and that that is uncomfortable for them, and you can't blend them until they're ready to blend. And if you try too quickly, you'll buy a couple more years. That was our very first lesson. We symbolically threw that sign in the fire and videoed it, and put it on Instagram. Isn't that funny? And just said like, "Sorry guys, my bad." You know. But yeah, luckily, five, I don't think our five could get along better.

Like even last night, our two middles are the only ones that share a room, and six years later, they're still on a sleepover. I have to go in there. I went in there last night. We're six years in, and I said you're not on a sleepover. She's not your friend. She's your sister. You have school tomorrow. Like you have to go to sleep." It's 1:00 AM, and our oldest one is down the hall, and he's like, "Can we put melatonin in their dinner? Like, I can't sleep." You can hear them across the house. It's just so funny. So yeah, I'm really, really thankful. I don't want anyone to think it was easy, but I do want to tell God thank you for how beautiful they are together at the same time, all at the same time, yeah.

Annie

I mean, that's something to be very grateful for. It could have been completely different.

Jess

Oh, sure. You know, and we could have lost one to another home. We could have lost all 5 to a different home. I mean, at this, you know, Jay and I are the ones that got to a place with therapy and prayer and growing and working.

Our podcast had a huge hand in that cause it had us face things that we would have never faced on a biweekly basis, and things came out on the mics that we never even had talked about before or known. You just knew that the Lord was communicating to us with us through that and so doing that. And we have so much further to go, but doing all of that, we got to a space where we were like, "Yes, we would hate it if you're going to go live with mom, but if that's what you need" or "yes, mom would cry if you went to live with dads, but Mom's a big girl, and that's what you need; that's what we'll do." And I'm not filling you full of hot air like we really got to that point probably a couple of years ago.

And just because we want, we just the whole "If less of me, as more of you than take everything, if the best way you can draw these kids to you is to take us completely out of the equation, do it." And I know that sounds like we're... I'm not trying to sound like a martyr, I'm just saying we all go to these classes, and we all do this like Google Research, and we read these books, but when it comes to a certain point, you're like, I'll do anything for these kids. "Okay, well, let them go live at dads’." Not that. Not that. Not that. And you're just like, okay, well, we need to open your hands. Let go of your grasp. And I mean, I'm talking big talk, if it if my three went to live with their dads, I would probably need a few months to recover. But I'm just saying we had to get to that point where we could say, "Tell me exactly what you need, and don't be scared of my reaction."

Annie

I think that's very wise. Entering into a marriage and understanding that your kids, what's best for them, may not be living with you and your new husband. That is, that's very…

Jess

It's tough.

Annie

It's tough, but it's something that you have to do. In order for your kids to grow in what the Lord is having them grow in, thank God that you didn't have to do that. But thank the Lord that you were also willing to let your kids go live with their dad if that was what. was best for them.

Jess

Right. Well, I know we learned quickly that if they said they had a great time at their other parents, we heard the flesh in us heard, "They hate our house," and that's not what they were saying at all.

They said they had a great time, them having a great time at their other parents is the best news you possibly could receive from them. You can't let it have a relationship with the amount of fun they had there, or the amount of joy or love they felt there means they didn't at your place, or that they had less at your place than in the same breath, the amount they love their other parent has nothing to do with you, and there's so much.

Bob Goff says, "Love like there's a hole in your pocket." I mean, there's just enough love, and there's that weird part of us likes to hear when they're frustrated with their other parent, or maybe they're not getting along with their other parent, there's something that does a little dance within ya, and that's something that you have to grab by the neck and strangle out and take to the foot of the cross and be like, "I don't want to be this person whatsoever." But we had to cut the tie between, you know, what that meant versus what we were hearing. Because what we want to hear is that they love their other parent because that means their other parent is doing well, and we need the other parent to do well and we want them to be thriving at the other home because the answers in the first part of the sentence, we want them to be thriving.

Annie

Yes, exactly. When it came to making sure that they were thriving when you were introducing them to the idea that you were getting married, was that just kind of a long process because of everything that went down, or was it just, like, one day "we've got to introduce them to the idea, let's do it." and you sat down with them and talked to them about it.

Jess

Nope, it's something we did completely incorrectly. We couldn't.

I think my children were a part of all of the courting and a part of the engagement. I have a little video of Lily dressed up like Jay proposing to Cash in one of my dresses, and it's really sweet, and he's probably two or three, you know, and she gets on a knee and talks like Jay. My husband has a really thick Texas accent, and so my children, fortunately, got to go through that process again because I wasn't in legal stuff, and Jay was. And so we had to have a whole different set of timeline and parameters.

Even though they got to spend a little bit of time together, my stepchildren weren't fully immersed in our family until we got back from getting married. So I want to say the first weekend we were officially a family was our first weekend together. Yeah, we did that really incorrectly. I wouldn't say we regret it, but probably we do, but again, shells of people trying to make decisions. Trying to make decisions as shells of people, our only intention back then was being together, not the health of our children. And so I think probably that's why we are so heavy on the health of our children as we can look back and see those mistakes we made.

Annie

How did you make sure that your kids were healthy and this process, that their mental health was okay, especially with Jay's divorce and then your divorce, and then you guys coming together? What were some of the things that you did?

Jess

We are huge proponents of therapy, and we know that therapy helps us so much. Having someone to talk to that we wished we'd had when we were younger, and that's something that we can provide for our children. And so, at some point or another, we've all been in it regularly or just going randomly. And so therapy and then just making sure that this is not a hostile environment and even down to... I love interior design, so I talked to one of my girlfriends. This is one of my funny stories. And she was like, lamps. Get tons of lamps." And I was like, yeah, lamps because I hate overhead lighting. Like, I have our overhead lighting disconnected like I don't want it on. I can't stand it. And so I was like, yeah, lamps. And so after we've been a family for a couple of years, my stepson was like, "Jess, why do we have so many lamps?" And I was like, "They're for you, Mr." like, I was like, "Why are you making fun?" And so anyways, everyone needs something different, and when they're seven of you, all of those different things have to happen all at the same time. So for us, it came down to cleanliness and organization. I never wanted them to walk into a hoarder house, and a house of seven can turn into a hoarder house overnight.

Annie

Uh huh.

Jess

I try to keep this place as straight as I can, and then I have some friends that help me once a month or twice a month. Keeping it straight is a huge importance to us, a huge value for us, and then in the very beginning, we knew that the other parent had to be honored here. And so we had framed pictures immediately. We had pictures of their other parent framed and put in their rooms. And, you know that's not easy. Again, we're going back to, this is my house, this is my safe space, and I'm staring at a framed picture of my husband's ex-wife. And so it's just a constant going back to Jesus and being like, "I don't like this” and he's like, “don't you put that thing in the drawer?" And it's just so funny. It's that tug of war there and then just the freedom and the surrender.

I have a really neat story from the very beginning. My stepchildren would have been 12 and 9. Maybe. I was cleaning my room and just straightening some things, and they come just bounding through the door and they're jumping from the bed to the couch, to the table and they're screaming my name and they're, and I realize they're what they're saying is they're saying "that's our mom's," just, "That's our moms. That's our mom's laundry detergent. How do you have my mom's laundry detergent?" And she had evidently been making a laundry detergent back then, and I had said it front and center in our laundry room, there was this gorgeous label. And they had spotted it.

They come running in, and, mind you, she's not our best friend. We're not going to go on vacation with her at this point. That needs to be clear. While I'm saying this, we're not at odds, but we don't have a relationship. There are families out there that do have those relationships. We have a very, very good relationship with my ex-husband. Wouldn't have one with her, and so for them to run in and say that, it was neat to see, and I was like, "Oh, of course, I have it. That's the best laundry detergent on Earth. Have you ever tried it? It's so good." And so we just knew right then that, no matter how we were feeling or no matter what we were going through, that our kids, the way they were going to have to come first is their other parent had to.

Annie

Yeah, that is eye-opening because I've heard of horror stories of step-parents, or new parents that come in who the father was widowed, and they just throw out all the pictures of the mom and then the children are left questioning if their mom really mattered.

Jess

Right.

Annie

And so I love that you honor the other parent and do that for your kids so that they're able to to feel like that family member is loved and respected.

Jess

Right. And then even going further, that has to happen, which is the hardest part, the HARDEST part, is it can't be BS. It can't. You can't do it and then roll your eyes as you walk away, or you know what I mean? Or after that, they would get a little bit more comfortable talking about their other parent.

Annie

Uh huh.

Jess

You can't make those looks to the other person across the room, or I mean it all has to get kind of cleansed out of there. Because they're little ears and the eavesdropping, I mean, it's pretty heavy when you've got a two-home family. And so you have to make sure that even in the privacy of your own room that you're doing better than. You know what I mean? It just can't be fake.

Annie

Of course, of course.

Jess

So you got to get to a different spot. And that I think honestly that was one of the toughest, one of the toughest.

Annie

I mean, what a way to keep you accountable to not gossiping and not being a nasty person behind closed doors.

Jess

Right? Right, you have to pretend like they have your room bugged.

Annie

Technically we do if we have cellphones

Jess

Right? HAHA

Annie

Even with the strain of the divorces having happened and going on and all that, how did you go about having space where you and Jay were able to process, or did you just not talk about some of the hard stuff or did you have to go somewhere else?

Jess

No, that's a great question because, you know when people say they go on date night and they're not allowed to talk about the children, that's a place we got to.

And it wasn't even the first year, and it wasn't even this year, it was somewhere in between. There were a couple of years that I want to say it, even kind of hugged, quarantine. But there was a couple of years in there where anytime we would talk about their mom, we would get in a fight, and it's not even for the reason you think. I'm a mom, and so I was always siding with the mom. I could see her side of things.

Is that awful, Annie? My face is so red.

I am very, I don't want to say devil's advocate because I hate how that sounds, but I always can see things from another side. That's where my mind goes is, uh, that sounds ridiculous. So I have to find another way around to make it make sense in my head. And so when my husband would tell me his version of the events, I would first go, "That can't be how it happened," and second, I would say, "Is that how he's going to talk about me if we ever got divorced?" Even though she never wanted to be in a club with me, she and I were in a club for years, like 2 years at least, where I was constantly taking up for her, I was constantly explaining to him how she must feel, like how scary must this feel to her in this situation? And I need you to find empathy for this mama. Because could you imagine being a mama walking through this? How awful this would have to be.

And then we got to another point where I said, "okay, no more. I don't want to hear her name. I don't want to hear what she said. I don't want to hear what you said. I don't want to hear anything. If you need to talk to a sister. Call your sister." So I even called my sister-in-law was like, "hey, he's coming for you. because I need to check out for a little bit," and so I checked out for a good year. I didn't know anything that was going on and if you asked me if they were doing good, I was like, "yeah, think so." And they probably weren't, I just didn't know. I just didn't know anything.

And then when I got to a personal level that was different from the one I was in. I could then come back and find that balance between being loyal to my husband and knowing things... you know, he doesn't need to be fighting or not even fight, Jay Norman doesn't really fight, but. he doesn't ever really, he's just not the type. But he doesn't ever really need to be at odds with his kids' mom and at odds with me at the same time. I should be way more supportive. So that was just a whole other tearing away of bad habits that I had created because of who I am and because of what personality type I am. I just want everyone to get along and want everyone to be happy, and I want everyone to understand exactly what everyone else is going through. And that wasn't always helpful for my marriage.

Annie

I mean it's kind of goes back to what you guys say on the podcast all the time, "Drop the rope."

Jess

Yep, drop the rope, drop the rope, and you know it wasn't even about what I was always trying to make it about. He didn't need to sit down and have a thesis of what was going on. He just needed to look over and see love.

Annie

Exactly. I love that you took the time you recognized what was going on. You took the time away from the situation so that you were able to stop yourself from hurting her, hurting him, hurting the whole situation, which I've never been divorced, but from what I could imagine it, it's incredibly hard to recognize when you're in the wrong.

Jess

Right?

Annie

I mean, in general, just in life, it's hard to recognize when you're wrong.

Jess

Yeah, right.

Annie

And to face it, and to cut that arm off so that it doesn't cause you to sin again or to cause you to hurt someone again.

Jess

Right.

Annie

I know that you talked about you had the whole board with the boots, which were so cute to honor the kids at your wedding, and then you tossed it in the fire a few years later.

Jess

Yes, right? It was so poetic.

Annie

What else did you do at your wedding to honor them? Your wedding, your reception, all that. Because this is a wedding podcast.

Jess

Yes, I love that you went back. We're definitely on the same page because that is exactly what my head was circling around. I was like, "how do we get back to that?" because it's my favorite part is when we announced them.

So I told you all five of them play basketball, so my girlfriend, Annie was there, she saw it. I think we'll have to dig up the video, but my girlfriend played.

Do you remember what song it was? A basketball song. "I'm playing basketball." You know that song? It's like a it's real fun.

And so she played that, and we announced all five children ahead of us. And she was going to announce each five kids, and then she was going to announce us for our opening dance. And she announced them like they were the starting lineup. And yeah, we're a basketball family, it just seemed so appropriate. But I remember walking up and my son, Cash, he would have been four, and he was in these little wranglers and pearl snap. And he's like, "mom" You know each of them were going to come out by themselves and be introduced and walk in front of everyone onto the dance floor and then Cash was going to dance because Cash was a huge dancer.

Annie

Yes, he was.

Jess

In fact, Annie took our pictures this week, and the whole time she took our pictures, he was dancing.

Annie

Right behind me.

Jess

Like behind her to make us smile. So he has taken some time off from dancing on social media, but yeah, he'll do it in person.

But so he says, "Mom, I just want to do something totally epic, and I just don't know what it is." And I was like, "well, I'm sure you're gonna do something. Like, I know you'll think of something." So you see, he's the last one to get announced. I think they went from oldest to youngest and he's the last one to get announced and he runs across the dance floor in his little Western Wear, and he jumps in the air and dabs when dabs were popular.

Annie

That was like, so I was trying to photograph it. He was mid-air and I was trying so hard to make sure the focus was right and everything.

Jess

Yeah, I think you got a good one. I really do. I really do think we have a good one of it, but we for sure have video.

Annie

Oh yeah, that's something that's worth having on video.

Jess

So he danced for just a little bit. I wished she had let him dance a little bit longer because she cut it short and, umm, faded into.

I wanted it all to be about them, I didn't need people to watch us dance. That was heavily stressful for me, but I can talk in front of everyone all day, but don't watch me sway back and forth for three minutes like this is so awkward. I know we do have a very good picture of the five of them standing on the dance floor watching, watching Cash dance. They're standing behind him. And that's one of our favorite pictures. So yeah.

Annie

You had them introduced, you didn't want yourself to be introduced. You though “let's introduce the kids and let them in their moment.”

Jess

Yes, let's go back to them dancing and we all stayed in this place. This was a place with a main cabin to have the reception. There was another main cabin with a kitchen, pool, tables, and things, and then there were about 15 mini cabins, so we had brought all of our family in from Louisiana and our family all from Texas. And so everyone stayed for the weekend, so by the time the reception.... now mind you, also, the reception was three months into our marriage, so we'd been a family for three months and planning it and asking them what did they want to do and what color do you think this should be? And so we tried to get them as involved as we possibly could, and then for the whole 2 days leading up to the reception they rampaged across the whole ranch on golf carts, with all of their cousins. And they had fainting goats, and they paddle-boarded. And they biked, and they played pool, and they ate, and they drank cokes till they were silly. And so I think they think highly thinking back on that. I hope they do that they had a really special weekend that weekend and then, you know, we had the reception.

Annie

That's such a cool way of going about planning a reception or even a wedding: making activities for the weekend. That way, if you're able to unwind. The vendors have the rest covered, and your kids can have fun together and remember it as something beautiful instead of being like, "Oh yeah, mom and Dad got married or dad got married to stepmom," or something like that.

Jess

Right. Right. Right, right. Yep. We had a really nice time. They definitely were just in their element with these fainting goats. And I think there were, like, 42 horses. And you know, they're cute, dresses and outfits that they wore and, you know, we had family friends that had kids their age, and they were there. I think they had a really good time.

Annie

They looked like they had a good time, I got a lot of pictures of it.

Jess

Yes, you did.

Annie

Ah, if I could go back and rephotograph that day, I would probably be there the whole weekend, making sure I captured all the activities.

Jess

Oh, gosh, Annie, that's my family's favorite night yet. I mean, we had we danced the night away!

Annie

You did.

Jess

Annie took this picture of my nephew, Cole, and my niece, Hannah, and they were born when I was like, 11 and 13. So they're they're almost my age. She took a picture of them and each of them are on the dance floor well into the night, having so much fun, and each one of them is holding a dog. And it is the funniest picture you have ever seen. All of the pictures are so funny. We just go back and laugh and laugh and send random ones to each other.

I have one of my dad who cut in on us, but took Jay instead of me. Annie took a picture of my dad and Jay and so those pictures are just so important to us.

Annie

Oh, I'm glad I was able to capture that. Because that's like the whole goal, right? Capturing the fun moments, therelationships, everything in between.

Jess

Yes, right.

Annie

Maybe I have to add “howdy” back on my website.

Jess

You need to, you need to.

Annie

Because I was born in Kansas. I mean, I live in Texas

Jess

You live in Texas

Annie

And howdy is just something I say. And to get the like small kids to look at me. I go. "Hey, hey, howdy, hey!!" Really loud and then not just the kids, but everyone looks at me when I say it that way. And I'm not super Texan. I'm not super southern, but I mean, I live in the South and I embrace the culture.

Jess

Yes, it's so lovely.

Annie

Yes, I mean, I live on a farm now. I can't get much more Texan than that.

Jess

Yes, right.

Annie

We're going to start wrapping things up with a couple more questions.

Jess

OK.

Annie

What was the transition like for you? Like for the whole family in general be coming to one family?

Jess

So of course, along the way there are things that you do and they're not correct, so you crash and burn and that doesn't feel right until you pivot. And so along the way we were learning about our little family and what would work and what wouldn't. And so in transitioning to the seven of us, one truth that we had to immediately identify was nothing can be forced. Nothing like you can't go tell her to go give stepdad a hug or tell him to call her this or you cannot tell them, "You need to get up off your phone. and you need to go on a walk with her" or, you know, you just could not force anything. Everything that occured here on this property had to happen organically and the more you tried to force it, it just totally went back to that shortcut as the quickest way to the back of the line.

The more you forced it, the more time you bought in the wrong because they would push back on it. And so if you were trying to force love to occur between the kids and the stepmom or the kids and the stepdad or the step-siblings with the step-siblings. that was pushed back on, but if you just kind of our, our pastor says, "there's there's freedom and surrender."

And so as soon as we learned to surrender that that's when that freedom came, then we knew that anything we were witnessing, whether my little girl would be braiding her little step sister's hair, they have a really special relationship and so anything they do, we just want to go bawl our eyes out. You know, but maybe my stepdaughter would be sitting in between Lily's legs while they surfed her phone. Or, you know, little things like that that mean 1000% more to us because it wasn't us pushing on them. It was them figuring out, "No, I don't have a choice in the matter, but I do choose to love this person," that choice being fully theirs. Of course, it doesn't even need to be said, but we don't allow them to be ugly to each other, there was nurturing there,. But as far as "you need to be her best friend," and "y'all need to get along," and just all of this stuff, we just allowed it to be a way bigger space for all of that.

Annie

Yeah, creating space so that they can transition was probably the best thing that you could do instead of forcing. Because I know myself, if my mom tells me to do something, I don't want to do it. I don't want to. I don't. I do not want to do it.

Jess

And another thing and I don’t know if this necessarily goes exactly with what you're asking, but one other huge truth that always just stands out to me is , and it goes back to dropping the rope, is when a mom and a dad discuss their children. That's exactly what they do. You know, if a mom walks in and tells the dad so and so's being a complete jerk. Well, then they talk about his punishment and what needs to happen, or his consequences or what kind of talk, or who's going to have the talk with him.

If a stepmama walks in and says the exact same sentence, they're not talking about consequences, They're not talking about consequences. they're not talking about punishment, they're not talking about what needs to happen, they're not talking about the talk that needs to occur. They're not going to talk about any type of game plan to get that person not like act like a jerk anymore. They are now turned towards each other with their big dukes up.

Because "did you just speak about my son." It's almost like the lady at the store talking about your son, It might as well be the same. Instead of together y'all making this situation better, now you're in war with each other, and you're in that tug of war. And it's so tricky, but it's just human nature, and it's just sociology.

We finally had to get, and this was recent, that's why I say year six was just so magical is we had to get to a point where if I'm talking about your son, I'm talking about my son. He's mine. He's ours. He's mine. We finally, after six years, got to a point where I love my stepchildren so much I can't see straight and so, and I think Jay got there so much quicker because of how much easier the situation was.

There were so many different circumstances surrounding that, and so he was able to step into that love a lot quicker and he's a male. It was different for me and a lot tougher for me. And so I realized that the only way this is going to work, and the only way he's not going to turn at me and put his big dukes up, is if he can hear love also in my voice.

And so when he was turning and putting those big dukes up at me, and saying "don't talk about my son." I probably was and I probably wasn't having that love there. Or don't talk about my daughter and we don't really talk about that daughter, she's the glue of our whole family, I don't think she's ever done anything wrong. I'm just saying, I'm not trying to isolate one of our kids as I make an example, but I have learned you have to get to a place where you love them more than you can love them.

I mean, you just have to get to that place of love and you have all these reasons that you're not gonna. Well, they didn't treat me this way or they never allowed me to. Or this is how they this is what you don't know what they did? Yes, I do. And I know all of that. Like everyone's walking through it. We're all experiencing all of the trash, but if you can't get to this place of love, then you can't parent them together.

So if you want to stay where you are and you don't, you don't. You can't, You cannot love them. You want to. You tried you, don't I? You don't know how much I tried, I know how much you tried, but if you've decided you can't get to that space, then you can't operate like the family that you always wanted. And so our end goal was honestly, we don't have children together, so we want these children to be ours. And so we had to get to a place where I can hear love in his voice, and he can hear love in mine and that, you know, again, was another just gigantic hurdle, and tearing away of self to get to that because there's so many reasons that make it difficult to do that.

Annie

There are. Do you have any advice or just encouragement that you want to share with people who are listening to this podcast that are in the process of blending their families, they want to blend their families, they're thinking that they're being called to start dating again, and they might blend their family? Do you have any encouragement for them? Resources that you would recommend, that kind of thing?

Jess

Oh gosh, resources. Just because you said that last, my girlfriend, Summer, Wrote a book called "Blended" and I'll have Annie link it in her bio of this episode. It's it saved our life and her main quote, God pulled her over on the side of the Interstate in Dallas one day and said, I did not call, I did not. "I did not bring you here." I'm going to butcher it, Sorry, Summer. "I did not bring you here so that these kids know how to call you mother, I brought you here so that these kids know how to call me Father." And I remember. It's like the first line of the book. So if I butchered it, you'll correct it in your first page but, it was the first line of the book.

And I remember, I bet you I was like in the first year of our marriage. And I remember that two years of emotion in my chest being released in that moment, I just remember falling into a million pieces because I had such expectations, like I told you, Annie, of like us being the Brady Bunch and the perfect little family. And that just seemed like, in one fell swoop, it let me off the hook. Like you're going to mess up, you're going to say the wrong thing, You're going to make the wrong look, you're going to lose your temper at the wrong time, but I've got you. I've got you. I just wanted to be such a good mom. You know, I wanted to be such a good mom, and such a good step mom and I didn't want them to ever be able to go to their other house and tell on me. "Listen to what she said or listen to what she did. Can you believe?" And in that one fell swoop, I thought, they'll always be able to. "They'll always be able to, everyone is always going to be able to talk about you. But there's not much you can say about our God." I mean, there’s just not. I mean, he's just. He's just everything. There's just not much you're going to catch him on. There's zero. So I just thought I'm imperfect but he is perfect and if I bring Him, then I'm doing something exactly right. And that gave me a big old deep breath.

Annie

That's beautiful. Any other words of encouragement?

Jess

Keep moving forward, don't get stuck. Just always move forward. Grace upon grace, upon grace just because it took you 100 tries to get something right, you're allowed to have 100 more if you need, so just as much grace as possible. We're all doing the best we can.

Another applicable piece of advice that we just implemented within the last year is we stopped asking what's wrong, "What's wrong with so and so? What's wrong with so and so? " Because we figured out that if someone's quiet or in a mood because we have four teenagers right now and one that and one that's walking into a teenager and he's an old soul. And so we got caught, I think that's probably how I was raised, but we got caught being like, "what's wrong with so and So what happened to so and so?" And it's so funny when you're stepchild is mad, you're immediately, like, "did I do something?" And you're it has nothing to do with you, you know.

We took that out of our vocabulary, we're not allowed to ask each other what's wrong with the kids. And we figured out that when we did ask what was wrong, if it kind of turned it into something like, maybe, "oh, I'll go talk to them" or you know what I mean, it just turned it into something. And we realized when we just let it go and drop that rope that they would be cackling within 6 minutes about something else. You know what I mean? That's just how a teenager is.

Our pastor says "hold loosely, just hold loosely to these truths." You know, "if you're wanting this truth for your family to be that you're happy all the time, hold loosely. " It's just not how it's going to be. And a lot of times, you will feel like you're riding a wave. But I can already tell you the ending and it's all going to work out.

Annie

Yeah, that's. All good. Lastly, where can people find you?

Jess

I am on Instagram, I'm on TikTok and I'm on Facebook under Jess Rush Norman. The reason I'm kind of pausing is because we're kind of in between websites and different things like that. And then Jay and I have Moving on Again Podcast and it's on all platforms where you stream your podcasts. And then my girlfriends and I have Huddle Co Podcast and it's also on all of those, YouTube and Spotify and Apple podcasts. And things like that. And so TikTok is my main platform, and it's Jess Rush Norman.

Annie

I will be linking that in the show notes if anyone wants to go and visit your channels, they can.

Jess

Oh, thanks, Annie. I would love it. We have a really beautiful community there of just the nicest folks you've ever met, so if you've ever heard that TikTok is a mean or gossipy place, not where I live on there.

Annie

I love that. Thank you so much for coming on to the podcast sharing your experience, and opening up about some of the hard things.

Jess

Oh, thanks, Annie. Thanks for having me on and letting me tell kind of what we've uncovered.

Annie

Yeah, if you liked this episode, go ahead and leave a review, and I will talk to you next time. Bye!